Wednesday, November 22, 2006

That's Booshit

I was okay with Justin Morneau barely besting Derek "The Awesome" Jeter to win the AL MVP Award yesterday. When I heard the news, I was legitimately happy for Morneau, who my buddy Chuck B and I had on our fantasy team this season. So we know what kind of player he is, and we know what he did night in and night out for the Twins.

But the more I think about it, the more upset I'm getting, for two major reasons. The first is that Morneau was not even the MVP of his own team -- that was AL Cy Young winner Johan Santana. Morneau is a beast, a force in the lineup and a pretty good fielder, but without Santana on the bump every five days, the lefty first baseman is nothing more than a Carlos Lee. I'm not saying Santana should have won the AL MVP, I'm just saying the AL MVP should probably be the most valuable player on his own team to qualify for the award.

More importantly, I'm tired of the tired "But Jeter's on the Yankees!" argument. Obviously we'll never know what would have happened, but if you take Jeter off that team this season there's no guarantee they'd have made the playoffs, and I'm guessing they wouldn't. Everyone behind him in the lineup this year was either injured for a prolonged period of time or in a massive slump for much of the season, so how can you just slap on that stupid Yankees argument and be done with it? You can't, dick, and you shan't.

And as for this Billy Ripken Fuckface motherfucker that placed Jeter 6th on the ballot, he should have his voting privileges revoked, his credit cards cut up and his bank account frozen. I mean, seriously, sixth place? Thanks for confirming you either know nothing about beisbol or you're a biased dickfor with no chance of ever voting objectively. You're done, brah, I'm gonna eat your kids.

Morneau, I like ya, you've got three vowels at the end of your last name, and you deserve a piece of the hardware. But you only deserve a small piece, and you know it. That's Derek's award, whether he wants it or not. Enjoy whatcha got.

Slack Video of the Day: Thanksgiving will be over before it starts, and with holiday parties coming strong around the bend, I offer up this video as a tutorial on how not to act at your company party.



Slack Song of the Day: For no reason, Rock and Roll Part II.

37 Comments:

At 12:06 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Cry Ace Cry!

 
At 12:14 PM, Blogger ScuffyMcgee said...

Ace,

You know how big of a Yankee fan I am, but I'm going to play devil's advocate. You are right about Santana, but what about the fact that Liriano went down, the offense definitely picked up a lot of slack that enabled a playoff run. Also, Jeter didn't win the batting title, isn't it possible with Morneau protecting J-Mau in the lineup that that J-Mau saw better pitches?

Despite all of the injuries, it's difficult to argue that a team that hasn't missed the playoffs since we were ripping on Plaggemeier's(Fuhrer) sweaters and laughing away at the late great 1st Lt. Matthew D. Lynch's hilarious Top Ten Lists, would miss the playoffs without Derek.

I am not one who believes that players in great lineups don't deserve the hardware, I thought A-Rod was the right choice last year, I just think that as quiet as his success was, Morneau was the right choice.

Didn't Joe Cowley play for the Yanks?

 
At 12:20 PM, Blogger Lozo said...

i was really pulling for jeter.

 
At 12:23 PM, Anonymous Andrew said...

Go fuck yourself. Jeter had no more business winning the MVP than A-Rod did last year. You Yankee fans are a bunch of assclowns. I am sure if Jeter wasnt there the collection of all- stars they have purchased, which he bats in front of would have gotten them to their annual early round playoff loss. You are the ass clown

 
At 12:31 PM, Blogger Ace Cowboy said...

Ha, well done, Andrew. That was my first great laugh of the day. My co-workers are now looking at me as I giggle like the schoolgirl you are.

Scuffy, your humility is frightening me...and I don't necessarily disagree. As I said in the post, I'm a big Morneau fan, I just don't even think he's the MVP of his team, while Jeter clearly carried the Yanks this season.

 
At 3:24 PM, Blogger ahren said...

my problem with it is that morneau isn't even the position player mvp of his own team. mauer was quite a bit more valuable. deciding between jeter and mauer was an actual difficult decision. i would've picked jeter.

also, the nl mvp choice was retarded.

 
At 3:29 PM, Blogger ahren said...

WARP1
------
mauer -- 8.9
jeter -- 9.8
morneau -- 7.3
santana -- 10.6

pujols -- 11.9
howard -- 8.6

WARP3
-----
mauer -- 10.6
jeter -- 12.1
morneau -- 8.6
santana -- 10.7

pujols -- 12.9
howard -- 9.4

like i said, howard and morneau are terrible choices. there's a reasonable case for jeter, santana, or mauer, i think...

 
At 3:41 PM, Anonymous HANDSTAND said...

Ryan Howard as a "terrible" choice is one of the funnier things I've read today. Nobody was more intimidating this season.

 
At 3:44 PM, Anonymous Greg said...

Morneau wasn't "protecting" Mauer though... Cuddyer hit behind him for the last 4 months, and before that it was a mishmash of Hunter, Rondell White, Tony Batista and Ruben Sierra. Morneau hit 5th or 6th.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/MIN/2006_bo.shtml

 
At 3:45 PM, Anonymous Greg said...

Are they awarding extra runs for intimidation now then?

 
At 3:52 PM, Blogger ahren said...

not saying howard is bad.
just that he's a bad choice.

as for intimidation, who would you rather pitch to in any situation-- howard or pujols?

eqa
---
pujols -- .350
howard -- .340

obp
---
p - .431
h - .425

slg
---
p - .671
h - .659

avg
---
p - .331
h - .313

so, pujols is a better hitter in every single way... runs better and plays the same position excellently that howard plays poorly. you can give some discount for the games pujols missed, but even with those misses, he was worth 3 more wins this year than howard. it's not even close.

 
At 3:55 PM, Anonymous Greg said...

I think that Ahren was probably referring to the NL choice as "retarded" is that it was a somewhat easier comparison. If you're looking at Jeter and Morneau, or Jeter and Santana, or Beltran and Pujols, you've got differing players with differing strengths who play different positions. With Pujols and Howard, it's apples to apples.

 
At 3:58 PM, Blogger Ace Cowboy said...

While I agree that Pujols statistically earned that award, I don't disagree with Handstand's comment here. And while I agree that Greg's comment was sufficiently snarky and comedic, I don't grant the premise that the guy with the best stats should automatically win.

Had I been a voter, I might have voted for Howard -- it's the Most Valuable Player, not the guy with the best statistics you've never heard of, even if those statistics show Pujols was a better contributor of runs and such.

Howard CARRIED that team down the stretch, and without him the Phils probably fall 10-15 games under .500. The Cards barely eked out a playoff spot in the biggest collapse of all-time, and Pujols didn't exactly come to the rescue in that stretch if I remember correctly.

Sometimes it's not stats that show how truly valuable a player is, no matter how the MIT crowd wants to slice it. After all, the Moneyball/James crowd has still yet to win anything meaningful, and I refuse to accept the nine-figure Red Sawx in that category.

I think you guys both make some good points, but saying Howard is a "terrible" choice and that it's "retarded" is just silly.

 
At 4:02 PM, Anonymous Greg said...

Pujols CARRIED that team in the first couple of months, and without him the Cards probably fall 15-20 games under .500.

See how easy that is to do?

 
At 4:04 PM, Anonymous Greg said...

"After all, the Moneyball/James crowd has still yet to win anything meaningful, and I refuse to accept the nine-figure Red Sawx in that category."

What does salary have to do with how well certain stats do or don't assess on-field value?

 
At 4:08 PM, Blogger ahren said...

and what exactly did howard "carry" the phillies to? the same place jeff cirillo carried the brewers... the golf course.

i always thought the "well his team made the playoffs argument while the other guys didn't" was weak... but to see it used in reverse is really wild.

if we're gonna use team results... pujols' team won the world series for christ's sake.

also, the phillies have a much stronger lineup than the cardinals, so saying howard "carried" that time while not acknowledging the same about pujols is just silly.

 
At 4:09 PM, Anonymous Greg said...

"Had I been a voter, I might have voted for Howard -- it's the Most Valuable Player, not the guy with the best statistics you've never heard of, even if those statistics show Pujols was a better contributor of runs and such."

Aren't runs how you ultimately assess value in a baseball game though? Team that contributes more runs than it allows the other team to contribute wins, right?

 
At 4:11 PM, Blogger Ace Cowboy said...

Aren't runs how you ultimately assess value in a baseball game though? Team that contributes more runs than it allows the other team to contribute wins, right?

So who do you think should win the MVP, the league leader in runs or RBI? Or maybe we'll just give the MVP Award to whoever leads the league in runs + RBI? I love your cute idea, and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.

 
At 4:14 PM, Anonymous Greg said...

"So who do you think should win the MVP, the league leader in runs or RBI? Or maybe we'll just give the MVP Award to whoever leads the league in runs + RBI? I love your cute idea, and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter"

Straw man, coming through! Look out everyone! It's a big one!

 
At 4:17 PM, Blogger ahren said...

EqA

Equivalent Average. A measure of total offensive value per out, with corrections for league offensive level, home park, and team pitching. EQA considers batting as well as baserunning, but not the value of a position player's defense. The EqA adjusted for all-time also has a correction for league difficulty. The scale is deliberately set to approximate that of batting average. League average EqA is always equal to .260. EqA is derived from Raw EqA, which is (H + TB + 1.5*(BB + HBP + SB) + SH + SF) divided by (AB + BB + HBP + SH + SF + CS + SB). REqA is then normalized to account for league difficulty and scale to create EqA.

 
At 4:18 PM, Blogger Ace Cowboy said...

Greg, I'll take shit from Ahren all day because he's actually making sense to me...but c'mon, don't say that I'm misrepresenting your argument without re-reading your horribly manipulative and particularly cringe-worthy comments.

 
At 4:19 PM, Anonymous Greg said...

Seriously though... when I'm talking about the runs that a player contributes, it's not runs and RBIs that I'm talking about.

Batter A reaches base on a dropped 3rd strike. Batter B doubles him to 3rd. Batter C hits a grounder to 2B that scores A. Batter B is stranded on 3B as the next 3 batters strike out. Batter A gets a run. Batter C gets an RBI. Batter B did more to score the run than anyone else in the inning, and gets no run, and no RBI.

 
At 4:21 PM, Blogger ahren said...

i think the issue is that runs and rbi are actually really poor indicators of how many runs an individual player contributes, because they are so dependent upon the other players in the batting order... thus using them to calculate "runs created" would be a poor method.

 
At 4:23 PM, Anonymous Greg said...

"Greg, I'll take shit from Ahren all day because he's actually making sense to me...but c'mon, don't say that I'm misrepresenting your argument without re-reading your horribly manipulative and particularly cringe-worthy comments."

You are misrepresenting my argument though. See my response. When I am talking about the runs that a player contributes offensively, I am not talking about runs and RBIs. When Ahren referred to the runs that a player contributes offensively, he was not talking about runs and RBIs. You seemed to understand this at first, given that you made some reference to fancy newfangled stats.

 
At 4:25 PM, Blogger Ace Cowboy said...

Fine, it doesn't matter...whatever stat you wanna insert, does whoever top your list of runs created automatically get the award? I just don't get -- and frankly I've never understood -- how you guys take intangibles out of everything.

Maybe you consider that a strong suit and reason for your awesomeness, I personally would hate to ever think like that. Up until this year, could you ever appreciate a guy like Jeter, or do you just bash his fielding range at all your meetings?

 
At 4:31 PM, Blogger MDS said...

"I don't grant the premise that the guy with the best stats should automatically win."

Has anyone ever said that? Or have people like ahren said something more along the lines of "Stats are a good way to measure the value of players, which is a necessary precursor to any attempt to name the most valuable player"?

 
At 4:32 PM, Anonymous HANDSTAND said...

Listen, if you get off on stats, I can sit here and combine runs produced, OPS versus teams that play west of the Mississippi and my ball sweat to give you statistics to pad Howard's resume. Bottom line, nobody was more of an offensive threat this season than Howard. Especially during the second half of the season when he hit .350+ with 30hr and about 80rbi. Just ask the Reds, who walked him to load the bases with no outs in a tied game. Or the other National League pitchers who walked him far more than any other player during the month of September.

Pujols had a great year and is a very worthy second. Unfortunately there was someone with better power numbers and game-changing presence than him this year.

 
At 4:34 PM, Anonymous Greg said...

"Up until this year, could you ever appreciate a guy like Jeter, or do you just bash his fielding range at all your meetings?"

Sure I can appreciate Jeter. Always have. He provides a ton of offense at an offensively challenged position. He's a first ballot HOFer.

 
At 4:34 PM, Blogger Ace Cowboy said...

MDS, shut your face...Ahren also called the Howard decision "terrible" and "retarded," which is all I stepped in to argue. Should I use him as the voice of reason there, too?

 
At 4:38 PM, Blogger Ace Cowboy said...

Greg, you're in NY, yeah? Let's continue this over a beer or something next week...I gotta jam on some work before leaving here for a long weekend.

Happy turkey, Slackers. Fun, spirited discussion...you're all wrong, though.

 
At 4:39 PM, Anonymous Greg said...

"Bottom line, nobody was more of an offensive threat this season than Howard. "

"Bottom line" implies something objective and concrete, a fact. This is an opinion. One you're certainly welcome to have and defend of course.

Besides, they play defense too...

 
At 4:47 PM, Anonymous HANDSTAND said...

Thanks Greg!

 
At 7:01 PM, Blogger Lozo said...

i hope voters took into account that jeter has a cologne. you can't undervalue that.

 
At 12:40 AM, Blogger NAME: Dr. Kenneth Noisewater said...

That video was AWESOME! It reminds me of that drunken Go-Go's video where Belinda Carlisle tells men out there that if they can't get laid they should jack off. Thanks, Belinda.

 
At 3:25 AM, Anonymous spanishmiguel said...

David Ortiz was clearly the MVP. He was the most dominant offensive force in the league on a team that was in serious contention for a majority (more than half) of the season. This was not a guy racking up stats on a last-place team. It's ridiculous that people only consider where teams end up at the end of the year, as if the first half of the season doesn't count - the Red Sox were in it, those games mattered, and Ortiz was flat-out dominant.

 
At 3:42 PM, Blogger Don Fiedler said...

Gino Petralli was clearly the MVP of both leagues this year because he bunts with his penis.

 
At 8:43 PM, Anonymous Greg said...

spanishmiguel, the real problem with Ortiz' candidacy as I see it isn't that the Red Sox finished 3rd in the Al East, it's that as a DH, he has to provide more value on offense than the combined value of another player's offense and defense. It's just extremely hard to do most of the time. And the value of that offensive contribution is further dinged by the fact that he is "only" a DH... if the Red Sox lose Ortiz, his replacement on offense is just the best bat on the bench, whereas someone like Jeter or Mauer's offensive replacement has to be able to play SS or catcher. That's a big part of why I generally favour "up the middle" players... defensive contributions aside, it's so much harder to find offense there.

 

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